Hiring College Grads In 2010.aspx Jan 13, 2010 suggest edit Comments Leave response Remember me 24 responses Jeremy • January 13th, 2010 Do applicants need to live in Redmond? Rahul Ravindran • January 13th, 2010 I am really disappointed to see the this post. A graduate can apply for a coding position but an undergraduate can only apply for a QA position? (not that I think QA is walk in the park)What part of a graduation course enables someone to write quality code? I am a dropout and I quit college because I was way too passionate about programming. I found most of the courses way too slow and outdated for my taste. (Not to mention being stuck in a class where most students only care about landing a job rather than being passionate about the subject).Please don't tell me you still believe in the old line about the difference in "designing" and *just* "programming". I care about the quality of my software just as much as a graduate (probably a lot more).I don't want to start a full scale debate but I am really curious to find out what makes you think being a graduate is really a necessity for a programming position. Daniel Chambers • January 13th, 2010 @Rahul: I can't say I had your experience at University. I did Professional Software Development at Swinburne in Melbourne, Australia and the course was up to date, very relevant and most of my fellow students were passionate about the subject of programming and cared about the quality of what they wrote.@Phil: Is there a timeline for this position (ie a date by which it must be filled and/or applications submitted)? cs • January 13th, 2010 I actually thought this was a little ageist. What about being a 2010 graduate makes someone a better candidate than someone who's been our of school for a while? Isn't age discrimination illegal?Not that one is necessarily young to be a 2010 graduate, but it certainly seems as though you're looking for young candidates.Bet you didn't think a job opening ppost would create so much drama, huh, Phil? Tuna Toksoz • January 13th, 2010 @RahulWhile your questions are all valid and have a basis, most often the time, it is a company policy to hire recent graduates. They usually also have internship positions for current students. It is not just because they are good or bad devs, but because they have the potential to be a good one. I don't really see anything wrong here. Tuna Toksoz • January 13th, 2010 Also considering companies like Microsoft tries to hire exceptional ones, odds are low that they will hire a bad one. Jack • January 13th, 2010 Great opportunity, but I'm not young anymore :) haacked • January 13th, 2010 Gee whiz people, sounds like somebody needs a hug. :)Microsoft hires a range of people from senior level to fresh (at any age) out of college. I was merely told by the development manager that we had some junior positions opening up as part of our college/grad school recruiting efforts, so I wrote a blog post to advertise those positions.If I were to hazard a guess, and this is just a guess, we already have our senior developer positions filled on the ASP.NET team, but we have a junior position opening up.If you think you belong at Microsoft, take control over your career and go to https://careers.microsoft.com/ and submit your resume. You don't need to wait for my permission to apply for a job at Microsoft (but feel free to mention me as the referrer). :)There's a range of positions open at the company and if you are an experienced quality developer, I doubt a college degree is absolutely mandatory. After all, Bill Gates started the company as a Harvard drop-out.But as far as the ASP.NET team is concerned, these are the only two positions currently open that I know about. Ashic • January 13th, 2010 Why on earth is the tooltip for the graduation-hat image reading "Olympus Digital Camera"? You getting paid to advertise, Phil? ;) Daniel • January 13th, 2010 Do applicants need to be from the USA? Sachin Jindal • January 13th, 2010 My B.tech is going to complete on June 2010. I want to do work for .NET Team. Please tell me how i can do this. Darren • January 13th, 2010 Is it open for Malaysian? I am graduating from my university in this year june. Of course, I done my internship before in Microsoft Innovation Center Malaysia. Anyway I appreciate Microsoft for giving chances to fresh graduate. Tom Ritter • January 13th, 2010 The thing that annoys the heck out of me is that companies won't consider people they think would be "over-qualified" for a job even if the person doesn't mind the discrepency. Presumably they want a fresh-out-college grad because it's a junior position.What if I've got several years of experience... but I really want to work on ASP.Net - so I'd be willing to take a junior position and a pay cut? I've heard horror stories about PhD's not able to get any job because everyone dismisses them because they're over-qualified... even though they don't care and just want the job. (I'd hate to think one would have to leave their degree(s) off their resume to get a job!)I understand arguments about not wanting to waste time on a person who is likely to turn it down... but why not just confirm with them: "Hey, this is a junior position, and you seem over-qualified. You're likely not going to be interested in the responsibilities and payscale. But if you're still interested, we'll bring you in for an interview." Seth • January 13th, 2010 > "Please tell me how i can do this"way to go lynn eriksen • January 13th, 2010 Nice art! ;) Hassan • January 14th, 2010 I'm interested Phil. But not a to be fresh grad...writing code in ASP.NET for past 4 years :( giovanni manunta • January 14th, 2010 I'm italian, i'm Graduated, I work on asp.net ajax 2.0 until 2008 (2 years) anon • January 14th, 2010 I'm graduating highschool is that junior enough? If I get the job I'm going to need a place to stay... hint hint, Phil. I promise I'll leave my shoes at the door and always leave the toilet seat down. And when you need some alone time just leave a sock on the door. Its all good in the hood homie. Holla at your boi! jack-the-lad • January 16th, 2010 I'm a bit past Graduation...But I know the 'suppository pattern' and how to 'inject' into *classes* Leniel Macaferi • January 16th, 2010 jack-the-lad,The 'suppository pattern' made me laugh out loud <(^^,)>...You come to read a serious post and ends laughing. Excellent! :)Leniel Macaferi fred • January 17th, 2010 I agree with CS -- but from the opposite end of the spectrum. This post smacks of blatant age discrimination. WHy would you not pitch this as 'entry level asp.net hot shots' and then list a specific minimal set of skills that makes one qualified? If anyone is suing Microsoft in an age discrimination suite you've just done them a great favor. WHy do you have no interest in opening up this position to say-- people in thier 30's who have just recently fallen in love with asp.net? The only criteria you've defined is age. Caution to all readers this likely means they are looking for enthusiastic and more readily exploitable people who don't have much familiarity with the workplace. WHat's the turn over rate for the asp.net team anyway? $133620261 • January 17th, 2010 Jeez!Lots of companies ask for recent graduates when filling positions. What they get out of them is cheap labour, less backchat and up-to-date information and skills that some older programmers don't have. It's win-win for both company and employee - the employee is expected to move on/up and the company has (hopefully) got some great work out of them, for a fraction of the cost of a senior developer. Out of university I got a job like this, having worked as an SEO analyst straight from school before I decided to go to uni.By all means, somebody who specialised in ASP for the last ten years could go for a junior post, but you'd be getting paid less than you're used to and you may be seriously out of your depth. In all honesty if you apply for a job taking a jump like that, it looks like you don't know what you're doing. Why would somebody want to take a risk on somebody that could easily leave after six months because they want to go in a different direction or don't like the current one they've tried to go down?As somebody who has lived both these out, it pays to keep yourself up to date with education/courses/certification. If anything, short-term, high paid work is your best bet if you're an old timer. At least then you're moving on because the job calls for it, not because you're flaky. fred • January 18th, 2010 Attention all (recent grad) applicants: Your new daddy Phil will not tolerate any backchat, you've been warned! Thank you Phil for sharing this aspect of your personality with all your readers and memorializing it in this blog post.re: 'Lots of companies ask for recent graduates when filling positions.' Yes, and lots of companies discriminate on the basis of age too and some of them use this strategy.According to your response the only people who would ever have an interest in this position are either upcoming graduates (of 4 year universities and grad programs) or obsolescent and incurious classic ASP developers who have ignored asp.net for the last nine years. There are no other sorts of people who could become valuable members of the ASP.Net team. You also made the lame Senior Software Developer argument because recent grads are 'a fraction of the price'. I see, so you've not only decided to save money by shunning qualified mid-career programmers and focus on upcoming grads because they are cheaper and will work lots of overtime but you've also made the paternalistic decision for all the unemployed Sr. Devs out there that it is not in their interest to take a lower paying position. Not your decision to make! Every new hire is a risk. Again, what is the turnover rate of the asp.net team. What percentage of former asp.net members 'moved up' and are still employed by Microsoft?www.google.com/publicdata Dozr • February 4th, 2010 What if you graduated fall 2009 but received your diploma jan 2010?