I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes

ShoesOf course that assumes that Joel wears a size 9 and a half.

Once again the Joel Cycle takes another turn.  The cycle goes something like this:

  • Joel critiques something or other.
  • Bloggers counter Joel’s claims, many with thoughtful counter arguments.
  • Soon a flood of comments and posts start to turn a bit ugly and form around two camps: The Joel is an idiot why do you even read him? camp and the Joel is successful, what have you ever done that you can disagree with him? camp.
  • Rinse and Repeat

It really is an interesting phenomenon to watch and participate in.  For example, I’ve had my blog post lumped in as part of the angry lynch mob out to get Joel.  All I said was that I found his argument unconvincing.  Am I really a part of a mob conspiracy?

Now before anyone jumps down my throat, let me clarify something very important.  I have tremendous amount of respect for Joel Spolsky.  There, I said it.  I can’t speak for Jeff Atwood, but I would venture to guess that he too has a lot of respect for Joel, despite the big red WTF on his forehead.

Anyone who has thousands of developers dissecting his every blog post and arguing the pros and cons of how he runs his company is doing something very right.  I’d love to be in those shoes, running a very successful company with thousands of people invested in what I do and how I do it, whether positively or negatively.

If I were to blog something stupid (and I’m not saying he did, but just for the sake of argument, sheesh!), I’d be lucky to get a couple comments to the effect, “Dude, you’re an idiot.”  Heck, I’d be happy if I even generated that level of passion. Rather I’d probably get a comment to the effect of, “I disagree. Nice Post! Buy Xanax”.

The other reaction Joel commonly gets is the I don’t know why y’all are reading him, I gave that shit up a long time ago reaction. I also don’t understand this reaction.  For the most part, I think Joel’s signal to noise ratio is very high, and he’s written some really top notch articles on his blog.  Just because he says a few things from time to time that you disagree with doesn’t mean you should throw the baby out with the bath water.  Sure he comes across as a bit arrogant, but he’s that good.

The last question I often see is Why is everyone paying Joel so much attention?  I addressed this very question before in my post, What Is It About Joel?

Rock StarIn many respects, Joel is the closest thing the software community has to a bonafide rockstar.  We’re half expecting to open up our aggregators one day and read about him enrolling in a drug rehab program, but one of those trendy ones in Malibu (or in the Hamptons I suppose with his fondness for New York).  Like it or not, he’s opinionated, successful, and a thought leader in our field.

So when he says something controversial, it’s natural to want to provide a counter argument lest some young punk developer at your next team meeting argues vehemently for writing a custom programming language and uses an Appeal to Authority to make his/her case.

Obviously what works for FogBugz does not work for everyone else, but not understands that distinction.

In any case, this will be my last post on the subject of Joel. At least until the cycle begins anew.

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What others have said

Requesting Gravatar... Ryan Smith Sep 13, 2006 9:51 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Well, I'm going to comment again because I haven't really been reading your blog, but lately I have ended up back here several times. I always see the comments on Coding Horror and think to myself, I should add Haacked to my RSS list. Done.

Your right, Joel is basically the rockstar of the software development industry. He is also very arrogant. Quite a bit of the time I get very frustrated and annoyed because Joel comes from the complete opposite background that I do (Ivy League, Microsoft, C). I'm a programmer who is basically self taught, never worked in assembly language, and started in VB.

All that being said, Joel has some great knowledge that every programmer should read. As far as a writer goes, Joel is my idle. I started creating sites and blogs just so I could practice writing like Joel: comical and interesting.

I think what's going on is Joel is right so often that it's great to nail him when he makes a remark so arrogant and contrary to his own beliefs and statements.

I love Mike Gunderloy's comment: "I think it's predictable that someone will be along momentarily to call BS on the notion that developers don't care about money."

I'll definitally continue to read JoelOnSoftware and I'll also be making a point to read Haacked in the future.
Requesting Gravatar... Craig Sep 13, 2006 10:02 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Heh, I've always thought of Don Box as the rock star of the development world. *Much* showier and generally just as quotable. He even plays bass. ;)
Requesting Gravatar... Haacked Sep 13, 2006 10:13 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
@Ryan: Welcome aboard the Haacked train. I hope your ride is pleasant.

@Craig, but Don's been rather quiet lately and doesn't come across as arrogant. Maybe I should say Joel is the Howard Stern of software development.
Requesting Gravatar... Craig Sep 13, 2006 10:16 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Haha. True - Don has quieted somewhat. And he's not arrogant, he's a pretty nice guy. Maybe I'm just thinking back to my glory days at DM. Sort of like how people listen to the music they liked at age 25 for the rest of their lives. ;)
Requesting Gravatar... ulric Sep 13, 2006 10:55 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Funny post...

p.s. : indeed, buy Xanax :-D
Requesting Gravatar... Brian H. Madsen Sep 14, 2006 5:28 AM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Hey Phil,

I like your point of view - one thing that should be clear after reading that is that there must an enormous amount of high opinionated developers (eg. BlogFlamers) circulating the development community.

You only really have to read somebody like Joel's blog to see how ridiculous most comments are - empty of anything but negative attitude and completely out of context.

One aspiration I personally have is to run a company well, and as Joel is able to, blog and attract that level of interest.

In a cut n' paste world if you're right, you're successful..simple as that...he runs his company successfully and hence there must be method to his madness :)
Requesting Gravatar... tod hilton Sep 14, 2006 10:15 AM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
First off, I love the Mark Wahlberg pic from Rock Star, perfect for the subject. :)

There are a few top-notch developers in my aggregator that I enjoy reading and respect profusely as professional developers, but consider them to be arrogant a-holes with regard to their personality. In fact, I touch on the subject in this post. Just to be clear, I don't even read Joel that frequently [only when someone points out a good article of his] so I'm not saying that he is included in this category.

What I like to see is the overall conversation from the different perspectives. That's something I, as a fairly new developer, can learn from. You, Joel, Jeff, Scott and many others are a perfect example of how that conversation can move forward to not only educate some of us, but to help our industry continue to grow in a positive direction.

ps: the Xanax comment had me rolling! :)
Requesting Gravatar... Ravenlock Sep 14, 2006 2:48 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Maybe you should add a third camp: the "what's all this fighting about, can't we all just get along" camp. :-)
Requesting Gravatar... Steve Harman Sep 17, 2006 3:14 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Dude, you’re an idiot.

There, you happy now?
Requesting Gravatar... Haacked Sep 17, 2006 4:46 PM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
Thanks Steve!
Requesting Gravatar... Mischa Kroon Sep 20, 2006 10:32 AM
# re: I'd Like To Be In Joel's Shoes
My take:
Joel made a post which was bound to attract comments... he did this to get more hits on his site and to gain attention for his new job board.

It was a very smart move :)
Who does he want listed on a job board:
Elite programmer types

What will these guys be reading the latest and greatest on things like Ruby blogs.
Which according to some has the thought leadership of the languages at the moment.

Anyway he did a pretty good job at generating a lot of traffic for his site :) and his job board did well...

The url:
http://jobs.joelonsoftware.com/

Didn't actually scan it for ruby jobs but they are bound to be on there :)

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