Removing The Comment Spam Incentive

The other tactic I neglected to mention in my previous post on combatting comment spam is more big picture.  How do we remove the incentive for spammers to comment spam in the first place?

Apparently the rel="nofollow" approach has done little to curb comment spammers despite many predictions (including my own).  I still think it is an important step in removing one incentive, but what else can be done to remove this incentive?

With the lack of results from the rel="nofollow" approach, the lesson we learn is that either the incentive for comment spam isn’t necessarily Google rankings or that there are enough unpatched blogs out in the wild that it still does help the google rank to post comments indiscriminately.  Or both.

If a spam commenter can put a link in the comments of several thousand blogs, then certainly that translates to tens to hundreds of thousands of eyeballs on that link, and maybe a few hundred clickthroughs (yes, I’m pulling these numbers out of my rear).  When someone clicks through, the spammer gets paid a small amount from the owner of the site.

Warning, here is where I go off the deep end in brainstorming solutions.  Forgive my naivete.

What if the marketers who pay for these links to be spread around found out that comment spammers were creating negative feelings for their products by posting comments on sites that were vehemently against having these advertisements.  Would they care?  Would they be interested in not paying for click throughs from sites who have specifically opted-out of such links? 

I’m probably dreaming here, but stay with me for a moment as I flesh out a quick thought experiment.  Suppose these sites did care.  One option is for them to not pay for links that originate from sites that specifically opt-out of comment advertising.  For example, by registering with some central opt-out site.

Another approach would be for sites that receive click-throughs to initiate a trackback like mechanism in which they request a comment spam policy from the blog.  If the blog does not explicitely endorse their product, the link does not get paid.

Of course the big flaw in this experiment is that these sites probably do not care and wouldn't go to the trouble to implement these approaches to being a good citizen.  They just want the links to come in.  Even negative publicity is good publicity.  So what can we do? Is there a way to make them care? Is there a way to make comment spam less lucrative?

What others have said

Requesting Gravatar... Robb Allen Aug 29, 2006 9:26 AM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
I, like you, am getting slammed with comment spam. My personal feeling is you find the spammers and execute them on the spot. Luckily for the world, I am not in charge.

But the damndest thing is that most spam seems to be the leftovers from automated, virus type systems. I think most spammers come up with some viral program, unleash it, get a few thousand hits before someone figures it out and shuts them down. The viruses still spam away, but the links are busted or no longer make sense.

I still can't believe people actually think that they should click on a link selling "c!@l....i..s and cheeeep VI/a/r ga." but apparently, they do enough to justify some schmuck to pay for it.
Requesting Gravatar... agoat Aug 29, 2006 10:25 AM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
I'm ashamed to admit it, but I used to work for one of those companies that paid for the incoming clicks. In my defense, I built the back-end for the site and wasn't aware of the marketing techniques. Once I found out I immediately went looking for a new job.

When it comes down to it, most of these companies are run by people who don't realize that this is a problem, don't care, or both. They care about their own bottom line because they are usually operating on razor-thin margins and are typically run by business flunkies, the kind of people who couldn't hack it at a real company and just ooze slime.

The worst are the ones who realize it's a problem and go to great lengths to keep doing business that way. I worked for one of these. There are actually a lot of ways to fight spammers. Contacting their DNS provider with evidence along with a handful of other people will cause any reputable DNS provider to shut them down. So our company went around finding less reputable DNS provider and spreading out our DNS servers.

For a long time I believed that the best way to combat this was for someone to write a virus that simulates clicks on a massive scale. Kind of like a Denial of Service attack, but with the intent of costing these companies so much money they'd be put out of business. Unfortunately, while working there, I learned that wouldn't work either. The good spammers put web bugs into the links. This bug is sent to the receiving company which then uses it in the url for an image after conversion. You typically pay more for these kinds of links because they only charge for guaranteed conversions. Combine that with the fact that we would verify every scrap of information we possibly could, the odds of a robot getting through and costing us money was virtually nil.

Ultimately I don't know what the answer is. They will always find some sort of medium to spam. No matter how many methods you shut down, there are always more. User education isn't the answer either. I can tell you, my mother will be clicking on those links until the day she dies. I bet most mothers will.

</ramble>
Requesting Gravatar... JiltedCitizen Aug 29, 2006 10:33 AM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
I thought they spelled all funny yo get through the filters. And I'm getting hit with spam too, that's why I asked about a CAPTCHA control for posting on the SourceForge forums.
Requesting Gravatar... Rydal Williams Aug 29, 2006 1:48 PM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
If its made simply enough and in such a way that plugging it in is as simple as 1-2-3, I'll be all over it.
Requesting Gravatar... Niels Hansen Aug 29, 2006 6:49 PM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
I installed this plug-in for Wordpress from a company called akismet and their url is http://akismet.com

It's been about 99% effective with removing spam from my blog. Since I added the plug-in, it's stopped over 2,000 messages. I honestly can't think of a one that got throuh. I'm not sure how hard it would be to implement their service into subtext but it could not hurt to take a look.


Requesting Gravatar... Niels Hansen Aug 29, 2006 6:51 PM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
Looks like there is a asp.net API that you could use to plug into it.

http://www.joel.net/code/akismet.aspx

Requesting Gravatar... Niels Hansen Aug 29, 2006 6:52 PM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
Check out their development page at

http://akismet.com/development/
Requesting Gravatar... Steve Harman Aug 30, 2006 10:34 AM
# re: Removing The Comment Spam Incentive
@Niels: I actually made a comment about possibly adding the Akismet webservice to subTEXT via a plugin in subTEXT v2.0.

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